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Marc

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This weekend decided to make a stand for the smaller Peter Wright. Used a 1" plate and welded 5"x2.5"x1/4" RHS at 12.5mm angle. I was thinking a bit about the angle of the legs. Posts by different people are not very illustrative going from 8 degree to 22. Too wide of a spectrum. So checked commercial stands like the Shady Grove shop that sells Reffies and his stands show a 15 degree angle. To me they look a bit too spread out and afraid they will be in my way. Found another site that states stands legs can be from 10 to 15 degrees. Well that made me decide to go half way at 12.5. Love my Cold Saw for this sort of cuts. Precise and repeatable. My 200 teeth blade was a bit on the thin side to cut this thick material but it made it anyway. Should have a 160 or even 140 teeth blade for this. 

I don't want to need to brace the legs so must do a decent weld. I cranked up my 250 amp MIG all the way up and wire speed to 18 and off I went. After the first pass, I ground the weld nice and even to facilitate the second pass. Learned this trick from a metalworker when he was building his submarine. Critical welds and all that. I am a lousy welder compared to him but grinding makes all the difference [smile] ... second pass I did not grind at all. 
The 206 hundredweight anvil stands proud, the tripod did not collapse,  and will be 790mm (31.1" ) high when I weld the base plates to the legs.  Another old debate is the hight of the anvil. Knuckle hight long regarded as ideal is all but. You bend down a lot and get back pain. Anvil hight should be wrist high or half way between knuckle and wrist. Basically higher for smaller work, lower for bigger work. 

Was going to do all now but the sand to fill the legs is wet, and I want it to be nice and dry since I am going to saturate it with motor oil. Bought 5L of the cheapest Gulf Western oil I could find in a discount store. Really for a few dollars couldn't get myself to use sump oil full of all sort of nasties. 

We had a lot of rain today after almost two month of no rain. A really long dry spell that tested the capacity of my rainwater tank at 10,000 gallons. 
So the sand is in the wheelbarrow under the house. It will be all nice and dry next week.
It will be interesting to see what happens when I fill the legs with sand and saturate with oil ... I suppose I do that bit by bit, some sand and some oil etc. Once full I will have to weld the plate on ... mm ... may be I can plug the sand and oil with a bit of sand and cement and let it set then turn around sit on the plate and weld a bit at the time and cool down with water every now and then? 

In case you wonder, sand and oil mix is to dampen the ring of the anvil. Still have to figure out what I will use to bolt the anvil down. Watch this space. Peter Wright base is a solid flat base and does not sit perfectly well on my solid flat plate. Will need to use a bit of blue to see where it is touching and give the base a shave with the old grinder. No I will not grind the anvil base, not that it would matter really. 

Still thinking if I should take to the letters welded to the side of the anvil by the previous owner with a flap disk or not. Mm ... 

The leg plates are out of 3"x5/16" flat bar and this time they will face outwards to add stability to the tripod. Not sure how far out they should go. I cut them 9" long so they can extend 4" past the end of the leg but they do look odd, like Ronald MacDonald shoes. May be just 2" past the edge will be OK. 



[image]
  [image]  [image] [image] [image]

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jmccustomknives

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Looks good.  Nice clean welds.  [thumb]  My welds aren't near as nice as I'm a certified gorilla welder; my welds are big, strong, and ugly.  lol.
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Scrambler82

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Reply with quote  #3 
Nice Welding !

I made my Anvil Stand a little taller too, I am 6'2" and do not want to bend over while using the anvil, I think I used the wrist as a gauge point.

I built my Gas Forge Stand taller for the same reason, less bending !

Looks good !

p.s.  A stretched wire shelf under the top would be a handy place to drop a hammer or other tool, maybe even a hot piece of steel and would add some support (even if it is not needed) to the legs.  Not too low will keep it out of the way... some, still allowing your feet to get closer.

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Marc

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Well the stand legs are now full of sand and oil. Peculiar how the sand behaves with the oil,it turns into some sort of quicksand, then you add more sand and it sits harder ... Anyway ... The last 2" or so I thought I'll plug with sand and cement to stop the oil from flowing out and make a fire with the weld.
I think I was over cautious. The oil does not catch fire as you weld,however I did weld a side at the time giving time for the steel to cool down.
My friend here was predicting a large explosion because of the bit of cement I used [smile] ... Well, he is a very competent electrician😀

Legs complete. Hit with a hammer they sound like hardwood and not metal. Success!
Now comes fitting of the anvil. PW has a flat base, so must fit the stand to the anvil.
Checking with a straight edge, the anvil is nice and flat but my base is not. Even when I used a one inch plate, the heavy weld managed to distort the plate. Not by much but enough to make the anvil rock.
After 3 hours of grinding, of lifting the anvil on the stand and marking the high points and grind some more, the anvil sits flat and solid.
Picked up a few kilos of metal with the magnetic sweeper ... now that is a nice invention ... And now is the time to drill 4 holes for the bolts, cut a strip of plate and then it will hopefully be the time for some paint ... no not for the anvil, don't worry [smile]
If I can figure out how to post a photo with this wretched tablet I am using today ... My laptop is otherwise engaged ...

Well, no luck, this thing is a toy.

Anchoring of the anvil will be via 4 bolts 5/8x5" that I need to fit through a 16 mm hole courtesy of my magnetic base drill and anular cutter, and bend at 45 more or less to go through 12x60flat bar.
Two little problems, the bolt once bent will not like to go past 25 mm plate. I can give it a gentler radius, drill a bigger hole or grind the inside edge of the hole with a die grinder. No the anular cutter will not drill at an angle.
Of course I could bend after but if I need to make some correction I am locked in, since I don't have an oxy here.
To make matters more interesting I just noticed that I bought high tensile bolts and not mild steel. They are grade 8 so medium carbon and will need to be annealed ... Nothing is easy ... Or ... I could weld the anvil down and be done with ... 😀

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Scrambler82

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Reply with quote  #5 
Morn'n Marc,

I have only seen the method of filling Stand Legs using a hole in the top side of the Leg, pipe tapped or a Threaded Bushing.

I would have agreed with your friend that said the cement and oil would explode, funny nothing happened.

What happens when the sand settles ?   Maybe there will still be enough to take away any sound or will it settle any at all ?

Waiting to see more pictures !

Ltr

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Reply with quote  #6 
Nice job and great welds.
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Marc

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I had the tripod upside down. Filled a bit of dry fine river sand and a bit of clean oil. Pushed it down with a rod, and then more Sand and more oil, keeping the consistency of thick paste. Once 3"near the edge, I packed one inch of sand nice and tight and no oil. Then made a mix 3:1 with sand and cement, plugged the hole with it and let it set. Then turned it the right way and welded the ends to the legs (4x8"x5/16)

The idea of explosion came to my friend not from oil and cement that I never mixed but from the experience of cement giving up gases when heated. When that is true, it require a lot of heat and I was careful in welding a bit at the time and a leg at the time in turn. The base plate and the RHS 1/4"thick was a great heat sink and cool enough to touch. The last weld to shut it tight was done when all was cool.I had a bit of oil dribbling out of one weld, and welding it shut was a nonissue. Unless there is a hole for the oil to flow out, the inside of the leg can not change.

The mixture of oil and sand is stable and sand is packed with the oil taking up the space occupied by air. Sure there can be some minor settlement but there is no air to speak off so may be the very top may separate a bit into oil only? May be a few mill ... Makes no difference to the desired noise cancelling effect.

Thank you anvil, it is easy to weld thick material with a MIG but a real welder I am not. Thought in taking some welding classes to take advantage of the TIG in my veteran Lincoln bullet welder that is sitting idle ... May be next year😀



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Marc

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Ok got the photos going

This is the completed stand minus dressing of the edges and anchoring of the anvil.
Took a lot of grinding the high spots to make the anvil sit flat.

[image]  

Too bad for those mean grooves for anchoring down. Cold have used them by making 4 U bolts ... thought about it and decided that 8 holes is a bit too much mucking around not to mention cutting the thread etc. I think that the 5/8 bolts into 12mm plate will look just right [smile]
I hope you can follow my Imperometric description. 

[image]  

Thank God for the magnetic base drill and anular cutters. Drilling 16mm in 25mm plate with a twist bit would have been epic. With the magnetic base it was kid's play. drilling with two fingers and squirting a bit of coolant with the other hand. 
[image]  [image]  

Got the fire going to anneal the bolts. red hot and into a bucket full of dry river sand. Amazing how long the sand keeps the heat. Since the fire was on, I had a flat bar kicking around so decided to curl it up just for fun. Free hand no jig. The hammer is a number 2 Big Blue cross peen hammer 2.4 lb ... not that it is needed for scrolling. Besides the fish tail, the rest requires very little force. Gentle taps a bit of heat and more gentle taps. 




[image]

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Reply with quote  #9 
Nice Stand and Scroll work Marc !

I've yet to drill my 1" Plate (25mm), can't get the stand in the Drill press, four holes on the outer edge, I need to locate a Drill on Magnetic base, sounds like the way to go, thks !

To jump ahead, what type of hold down are you working on, my plan is using standard angle steel ?



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Marc

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I'll bend the bolts sideways at 45 or so to go through a plate each side. It has to do with how the legs of the PW are. Could have used those grooves but this way I think is easier. The two flat bars go along the short side of the base, sit on top of that rebate and are 12mmx60mmx270mm with a 16 mm hole each side.
Because the bolt will need to have two kinks in it, to bend it beforehand means a much larger hole. I decided to bring the o/a torch and heat the bolt and bend in situ.

Something else I have been pondering ... My wife asked me can the kids topple this, asking about the vice tripod I made. i said no and in fact a kid would be hard pressed to even move that tripod that is extremely stable, however the anvil stand is another matter entirely and if not bolted to the ground it can easily be toppled, may be not by a kid but a grown up could for sure. 
So how do I reconcile this with the need to move the anvil short distances according to the job at hand?

i came up with an idea that should be a good compromise. All I need is a few anchoring points in the ground in different places, a small hook a chain a turnbuckle and another hook in the centre, on the underside of the stand to tie the lot down permanently. The anchoring point can be a pipe with a 12mm nut welded at one end and screw in it an eyebolt that can be removed and relocated to another anchoring point.

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Reply with quote  #11 
I am not sure how your clamps will work but it sounds like it should work and that is the point !

My Clamps will be made from 2 pieces of 1" angled steel.   Flipped on each other to form a sort of straight backed "Z".  Weld them together and two holes in each should hold things down and in place..

My big problem is... the drilling of the steel plate.  Your thoughts on the Magnetic Drill will help a lot, I will need to rent one but that will work out. Thks...

I just need some power in my shop and I can get started on the finishing touches only stand and even using my drill press.

I will have to try out my Anvil Stand before determining if it is stable or not; I added three inches to the bottom sides and the bottom plate hoping it will help stabilize it.  If it turns out a little tippy, my first try to preventing a tip over would be some strips of steel, 3/8" inch x the width of the stand plus six inches or so wider on each side, secured to the bottom plate on my stand.  Maybe roll the edge some to prevent tripping.

If you don't want to bolt your stand down, maybe an added strip of 3/8" steel on the single legs to stabilize the unit.  Width and thickness is personal sizing.

Good Luck.





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Marc

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Reply with quote  #12 
Anvil is bolted down now, it sounds like banging on concrete, no sound at all. 
Cooked the high tensile bolts in the forge and let it cool in sand. Then bent it in place heating with the oxy. Had a bit of galling happening on one of the bolts only because one of the nuts seems was metric. Had to cut the bolt and replace it. After annealing the thread is very rough from the scale. Had a tin of anti seize grease and applied on all 4 nuts. 
[image]

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Reply with quote  #13 
I see on the mounting, nice and solid, HD !

I will be using plain old angle iron to create the mounting for my PW, should hold it in place.

What does your stand weigh in at ?

I need to check mine some day !





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Marc

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Mm ... I did lift it and tossed it about so not too much ... say 30Kg to 40Kg ... what's that in imperiale ... 66 to 88 good old pounds. [smile]

How would you bolt it down using angle? 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc
Mm ... I did lift it and tossed it about so not too much ... say 30Kg to 40Kg ... what's that in imperiale ... 66 to 88 good old pounds. [smile]

How would you bolt it down using angle? 


Mine, LoL, needs to be moved by the old Tractor !  Not sure how much it weighs or even how I would do it, all I know is it is heavy and I don't want to throw out my back playing with it !

When you mentioned your sounded like a concrete block I had to run out and see how solid mine sound... to me it sounds good, a slight ring, and the PW isn't secured yet.  Hopefully the ring will be cut down some once the brackets re in place.



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Marc

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Reply with quote  #16 
Ha ha, you sound like my neighbour who looks in horror how I move around heavy steel beams and couldn't believe I moved a 480 pound PW from the trailer to the shed on my own. There is a bit of skill involved in moving around heavy stuff, it is not about muscles ... well there is a bit of that, but not much. For example you can lift a very heavy load a little bit off the floor very easy if you crouch down halfway, use your arms and have your elbows on your knees.
I remember when I installed a 6m (20') long steel ramp from the shore anchoring point to the pontoon ... on my own. More skill than muscles I tell you.

One fun thing you can do on your own.
Say you want to lift a very heavy anvil on it's stand. Say something you couldn't possibly lift between 2 or 3 or 4 people, you have no overhead beam, engine lift or tractor.
And you only have a small person, say a kid or a lady to help. You must wheel the anvil to it's final resting place right next to the stand using a trolley, pushing and shoving, can't help you with that. You can always use your car a long rope looped around a column behind the anvil and pull with the car dragging the anvil in position. Fun [smile]

This is what you do. 

You need a long RHS or LVL or even a 6"x2" hardwood some 13', 14' long. 
You need a nice strong strap and two dozen or so pieces of wood. enough to make two piles the same hight of your stand and large enough to give you a steady base.

Strap the pipe or wood on top of the anvil in the centre of the beam. Strap it nice an tight if necessary use two straps very tight under the two horns of the anvil and over the timber or steel pipe.
Next you get your helper to stand next to the anvil.
You will lean on the pipe and with very little effort you can tip the anvil making the horn go down and the legs on the opposite side up.
Your helper will then slide a brick, or wood or tile under the legs that are up and you can lower the anvil on it.
Go to the other side and repeat the process. Unless you used something that is too thick, it should be easy to tip the anvil the other way. Now you have your anvil lifted up say one or two inches. 
Keep on doing this until your anvil is at pair with the stand. 
It is important that you choose packing material that is large enough to give you a stable base because your next move is to make the anvil 'walk' sideways from the pile of planks to the stand. Lean on the pipe, walk sideways until the legs are on the stand and lower it. Make sure your helper is well away. if your anvil topples off your pile of things, jump to the side and repeat the process with better materials. [smile]

I can not take credit for this method of lifting since this is apparently how they built Stonehenge, a Neolithic monument in  Wiltshire UK ... mutatis mutandis of course. 



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Hank Rearden

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Reply with quote  #17 
Nicely done.
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