theengel
I ordered some metal a few weeks ago.  It was the first time I had actually spent money on steel.  I wanted to get something to make a set of kitchen knives.  Something that would last a while.  So I ordered a few bars of 1080 and went to work on it.

Weeks later, I'm finishing the grinding on my vegetable cutter.  I was thinking about ordering more steel, cause it was so cheap.  Then I look at my order history (to make it easy to just add more to the cart) and I find that I've been working with 1018, not 1080.

This is what I made:

IMG_0622.JPG 
IMG_0623.JPG 

Or, if not smithies per se, were you otherwise trained in the metallurgic arts before straitened circumstances forced you into a life of aimless wanderin'?
Quote 0 0


jmccustomknives
Facepalm.  [mad]  It happens, good thing you caught it.  At least you got practice in on grinding.

Rule #10;  "I can make that" translates to; "I'm to cheap to buy it new."

Quote 1 0
Skarzs the Cave Troll
Ssss. . . Yikes. Dyslexia is a. . . female dog sometimes. . .
Quote 1 0
theengel

Funny thing is, I was really starting to question all the posts about the various scrap metals people use.  Heck, it's super cheap to buy at onlinemetals.  Now I see why... because I was buying super cheap steel.  Guess those coil springs I got off my brother's van are gonna come in handy after all.  Well, I got a good 10 hours worth of practice forge time out of the experience.

Or, if not smithies per se, were you otherwise trained in the metallurgic arts before straitened circumstances forced you into a life of aimless wanderin'?
Quote 0 0
jmccustomknives
theengel wrote:

Funny thing is, I was really starting to question all the posts about the various scrap metals people use.  Heck, it's super cheap to buy at onlinemetals.  Now I see why... because I was buying super cheap steel.  Guess those coil springs I got off my brother's van are gonna come in handy after all.  Well, I got a good 10 hours worth of practice forge time out of the experience.



In reality, steel is the cheapest part of a knife (well, except for those voodoo steels and Damascus).  For kitchen knives I'll buy 1/8 1095 that ends up costing less than $4 a blade.  I'll have $40 in shop supplies, 25-50 in the handle.  Then I'll have my time. 

Now if you factor in that time thing, you spend several hours forging out a spring thin enough for a kitchen knife.  Then you grind it out, that's going to take more time and twice as many belts.  That spring actually cost more.  Getting your steel from someone like NJSB is expensive, but it comes annealed (you can drill through it) and is ready to work.  That saves time and belts.  And that saves money.

I keep a supply of steel around just for this job, even though I hate making them.

Rule #10;  "I can make that" translates to; "I'm to cheap to buy it new."

Quote 0 0
theengel
Yeah, but then you don't get to forge.

I just bought a chunk of D2 on ebay.  I'm wondering how easy it is to work.
Or, if not smithies per se, were you otherwise trained in the metallurgic arts before straitened circumstances forced you into a life of aimless wanderin'?
Quote 0 0
jmccustomknives
theengel wrote:
Yeah, but then you don't get to forge.

I just bought a chunk of D2 on ebay.  I'm wondering how easy it is to work.


Ah, yes.  I remember the first pc of D-2 I ever tried to forge.  One never forgets a painful experience.  The problem with steels like D-2 is, well the first of many problems, it is stubborn under the hammer.  I heated that pc up to bright yellow and with a 4lb hammer whacked away just leaving little dents.

That brings up the first issue with steels like this.  It is an air hardening tool steel which means as it cools naturally martensite (hardened steel) forms.  It's austinizing temperature is around 1900F, much hotter than 1095, so you have to take that into account.  If you start with an annealed billet you can forge it below that temp, it is slow going by doing that.  The second you hit its austinizing temp you cannot forge below that temp again.  You have to keep it hot.  That doesn't mean that it forges much easier.

The second issue with D-2 is many professional makers don't like it.  This alloy is very fickle in the heat treat.  50 deg +or- can mean a loss of 2 Rockwell points of hardness.

If you are concerned about cost and want to forge look up Admiral steel and get a stick of 5160.  It's cheap, and a known steel.  You'll have to buy a 20 ft section but that will make a bunch of knives.  By the time you finish you should be proficient in forging and heat treating that steel. 

Rule #10;  "I can make that" translates to; "I'm to cheap to buy it new."

Quote 0 0
Skarzs the Cave Troll
I've got some jackhammer bits I need to attempt to forge just to experience the pain of D2. [biggrin] [frown] I have heard that it is also an oil quench steel. . .
Quote 0 0
jmccustomknives
Skarzs the Cave Troll wrote:
I've got some jackhammer bits I need to attempt to forge just to experience the pain of D2. [biggrin] [frown] I have heard that it is also an oil quench steel. . .


Jack hammer bits are usually s-7, somewhat similar steel but less carbon.  It's a little easier to use.

Rule #10;  "I can make that" translates to; "I'm to cheap to buy it new."

Quote 0 0
theengel
Well, at least I won't have high expectations.
Or, if not smithies per se, were you otherwise trained in the metallurgic arts before straitened circumstances forced you into a life of aimless wanderin'?
Quote 0 0
Hank Rearden
I recycle my scrap pile. I take scrap try to make something and then start a new scrap pile.
code[Maglio.gif]  Keep the fires burning hot!
2020 ABANA Conference in Sarasota New York. June 3rd. through June 6th. Plan now!
Quote 0 0
theengel
jmccustomknives wrote:


Jack hammer bits are usually s-7, somewhat similar steel but less carbon.  It's a little easier to use.



By dad bought several tons of jackhammer bits at a city auction once.  We had planned on selling them, but no one would buy them--they didn't fit any jack hammers being used.  He ended up scrapping them all.  I wish now we had kept some.
Or, if not smithies per se, were you otherwise trained in the metallurgic arts before straitened circumstances forced you into a life of aimless wanderin'?
Quote 0 0
theengel
Funny story about those jackhammer bits.  We were trying to chisel a rusted bolt off a car.  My brother held the 'chisel' while my dad pounded on it.  I just sat and watched.  A chip broke off the bit and embedded itself into my brother's arm.  It went so deep we had to go to the hospital to get it removed.

That's why they all ended up being scrapped.  We vowed never to use a jackhammer bit as a chisel again.  My dad felt so guilty he just wanted them gone.
Or, if not smithies per se, were you otherwise trained in the metallurgic arts before straitened circumstances forced you into a life of aimless wanderin'?
Quote 0 0
jmccustomknives
theengel wrote:
Funny story about those jackhammer bits.  We were trying to chisel a rusted bolt off a car.  My brother held the 'chisel' while my dad pounded on it.  I just sat and watched.  A chip broke off the bit and embedded itself into my brother's arm.  It went so deep we had to go to the hospital to get it removed.

That's why they all ended up being scrapped.  We vowed never to use a jackhammer bit as a chisel again.  My dad felt so guilty he just wanted them gone.


years ago I was working in a truck shop while on the other end a mechanic was using an air chisel.  A piece of steel shaped like a tiny arrow head buried itself in my arm.  Safety glasses.  [cool]

Rule #10;  "I can make that" translates to; "I'm to cheap to buy it new."

Quote 0 0
Skarzs the Cave Troll
One guy nearly had a piece of a maul he was using as a splitting wedge embed itself in his heart. Got lucky.
Quote 0 0
Scrambler82
Not to keep steeling "theengal's" thread but I was working at a Commercial Forge Shop, got hit in the leg with something, didn't think too much about it but once we had set the dies for the next heat I noticed my foot was wet.  I pulled it out of the boot and it was covered in blood.  the hit on the leg was a chip of hardened steel that hit my pants, went thought, hit my leg and almost went though, I had a bump on the opposite side of the hit, at least it helped the doctors locate the piece.

Always dangerous to hit steel to steel and no one said blacksmithing wasn't dangerous !  To throw away steel because of the dangerous situation... NOT !  
Second thought, I might toss the piece across the barn though !
Do It Right The First Time !
GrevB
Location: SoCal, USA
Quote 0 0
Skarzs the Cave Troll
Good stuff.
Quote 0 0
anvil
That's why it bothers me when people suggest using a sledge hammer for an anvil. Seems to be an accident like what happened to Scrambler waiting to happen.
Quote 0 0
Scrambler82
Hello, I've been LURKING but not posting, didn't want to waste bandwidth... !
I never thought of my accident in that way, it was what we did to get the job done, BUT what was involved, two hardened pieces of steel; an accident waiting to happen, especially when you are using the Hammer head for an anvil.
I always wanted to take one of my larger hammers, and cut it in half, (How... ???), then use it as a smaller more precise anvil Hardie... !

anvil,  but now that you say it out loud I WILL rethink my FUTHER methods and look for a block of unhardened steel to use instead.
Do It Right The First Time !
GrevB
Location: SoCal, USA
Quote 0 0
anvil
Or you could draw the temper  back below a blue color. 
Quote 1 0
Skarzs the Cave Troll
Scrambler82 wrote:
I always wanted to take one of my larger hammers, and cut it in half, (How... ???),
Cut off wheels on your angle grinder. Or a torch. Or you heat it up to draw back the hardness and then cut it with a band saw, like Anvil said.
Quote 1 0
Marc
anvil wrote:
That's why it bothers me when people suggest using a sledge hammer for an anvil. Seems to be an accident like what happened to Scrambler waiting to happen.


Agreed. And not only because of chips from hammer against hammer, but because the small work surface will make a missed strike a hazard for the hand holding the hammer. I don't tire from saying this. If you have no money to buy a good quality anvil, buy a cheap crappy one. Yes, the maligned ASO you buy in the hardware for cheap, that soft horribly shaped things are WAY BETTER than a sledgehammer or even worst, a vertical railtrack with it's minuscule work surface.
"Rebound" is overrated, if you don't miss your hot iron, you will not mark the cheap anvil, and yes, it will deform and bend out of shape eventually making for a nice souvenir from your beginnings as a blacksmith. Hang it on the wall and buy another one, or hopefully a good one. 🙂 
Much that passes as idealism, is disguised hatred or disguised love of power. Bertrand Russell
 
Quote 0 0
Scrambler82
So much or Hard Steel on Steel... Theengel's thread has been stolen and I apologize for it !

Theengel,  How are the "kitchen knives" coming along ?

I am having trouble just getting started, a set of knives would be nice, maybe the Wife would understand more !
Do It Right The First Time !
GrevB
Location: SoCal, USA
Quote 0 0