Marc
Done the vice stand and the anvil stand, next is to get the old rivet or rather the nomad farrier forge to work. 
I tried to make a fire pot with mud from the river. It was fun and sticky and reminded me when I had the brick kiln and we made thousands of bricks with mud mixed with horse manure, sawdust, cow dung and whatever stuff we could find. Reminded me that there was a reason for those 'additives' and that is so that the mud does not get the massive cracks I got in my forge. 
I tried to used it as it was and when the cracks did not seem to matter much, the proportion of my firepot were out by a mile. Way to small and since I was using a mixture of stone coal and coke, when the stone coal was spent the coke expired too. [frown]

So the next project is to improve on this contraption. 
The most obvious place to start is to make a fire pot of generous proportions. Say ... the large side of the truncated pyramid will be 8"x8", the small side 4"x4" the hight 4". I have a few strips of plate that are 6"x1/4" and 4' long so plenty of stuff to cut out my firepot. Also have a bit of flat bar that is 4"x3/8" to make the little grill. 

I will have to cut out 3 slots in a 4"x4" square. I can do so easily with the magnetic base drill but the smallest hole cutter I have is 12mm ... a bit too wide (?) Should I make the slots just 10mm ? 

Another area that needs improving is the air supply. I did a bit of work on the hand cranked fan that was stiff and noisy, and now it's nice and smooth and half as noisy. But working on any decent size project on this is going to be a pain. if I wan't to get my gate together I need an electric fan for sure. 
Found a hydroponics vent fan, all metallic on ebay. It's 4". All I need is a reduction from 4" to 3" and plug it in the air intake of the fan that is 3". This way I can have it electric and when I feel nostalgic I can crank it too. The fan claims to move 120 cfm.

Those are the two areas that I think I can improve short of making a new forge. I can also mount it on a trolley with two wheels and two legs to shuffle it around as needed rather than dragging it on those bent demountable legs it has now that go each their own way. Hopefully no museum curator will stone me for heresy since I will not drill or cut anything and it will remain in one piece as it was 100 years ago when it was conceived. 

A larger forge is on the carts but this will do for now. 
This is the little contraption with the fresh mud nice and smooth ... but way too small. I'll post photos of the fire pot grill and the rest as they come available. 
[image]  [image]  [image]  [s-l1600] 


The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else.
Adrian Pierce Rogers
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Scrambler82
Hey Marc,

Just my opinion and a Novice one at that...  but the Fan in the picture is a fan to move low volume heated air from a warmer area to a colder area.  It is not designed for a higher pressure volume I interpret is needed for the Rivet Forge.


[s-l1600] 


In a household application, where I believe that fan is used, air is mored slower so it doesn't cool down, in your application the speed of the air isn't a problem, cold or hot... !

I am not experienced enough and shouldn't be making these claims but it is what I think is correct for a Forge Air Supply.

If I am wrong, slap me up side the head and tell me to sit in the corner !  LoL !

Nice little forge you have, hope it works out for you.

Ltr
Do It Right The First Time !
GrevB
Location: SoCal, USA
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Marc
Ha ha no slaps from me.
I also think it will be underpowered, but will give it a go. They have a similar one that is 6", and double the cfm.
They are cheap so not an issue.
Meantime I have done a fire pot an tacked it in place. Can always chisel it out if the museum comes calling. 😇
Will also add an edge to keep the coals on the forge and off the floor.
The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else.
Adrian Pierce Rogers
Quote 0 0
Marc
Fire pot and edge are in place. "clay" is in ... actually mud from the river this time mixed with lawn clippings. 
I glued a flange to the air intake of the blower. t's a 4" gutter flange that fits perfect. I wire wheeled the edge of the blower and used a heavy duty epoxy glue. It took 24 hours but it is rock solid. 
As expected the little in line fan did not do much more than a weak breeze, however I am happy that I now have a place to attach a conduit and also that the hand blower works well even with an electric fan on the intake, so I can use either or even both.
The fire pot is 1/4" plate and the grill is 1/2" with 12mm grooves.  
Last week, I went to Bunnings (our big hardware chain) to buy a turnbuckle and some shackles and saw a straight peen hammer I had never seen in a hardware store. So bought it and now it came real handy do bend the edges of the forge on the open jaws of the vice. Paid a fraction of my Big Blu cross peen hammers. 

[image]
  [image]  [image]  [image]  [image]  [image]  [image]  [image]
The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else.
Adrian Pierce Rogers
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anvil
I can't quite tell from your pics, but did you inset the top edge of your firepot into the forge? So that the top edge of the firepot is the same height as the cutout on the forge?

Second, I would have made my firepot a rectangle. This means you can get a longer heat on your work.

3rd; for all your hand work I believe your grate will be a problem and a constant nag. It needs a handle so you can easily, without destroying your fire, remove clinker and Ash by rotating the handle.. I have no clue about Australia but centaur forge has these "clinker balls and handles for cheap.

Geeze, no longer cheap! How times change. But a necessity in my opinion

http://www.centaurforge.com/mobile/searchprods.asp
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Marc
Yes, the firepot is 100mm high and so is the forge, in fact a tad lower it seems, so I can place longer stock on the fire. Must say that it clearly is a compromise. It is a rivet forge after all. I thought about making a clinker breaker with a handle but decided against it. I can clear the grate with a poker. If it really becomes a problem I will cut a hole in the grate and have one of this in there. Yes, not cheap at $30 us plus postage I end up paying $50 for it ..., Can do the same with a bit of square stock I think ... or a big nut on the side. 

 [BALL]
The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else.
Adrian Pierce Rogers
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mtforge
That looks nice. Good depth and width. My traveling forge has a solid grate similar to yours. I don't miss the clinker breaker like my shop forge has. When needed I pull my fire rake through it and the ash and clinker pile up on one side. Then take it out with a shovel.
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anvil
You are correct. And when you do that you must either break your fire down and move your green coal and coke out of the way, or mix your green coal with Ash and clinker. Unless I'm missing something. And, of course, an Ash dump at the bottom.

So much more efficient to have all them fines just exit the bottom and not have to break down the fire.

Marc, I'm sure you know the differences between cast and mild steel. Here's one you may not know.

Molten clinker will weld itself to mild steel where it would only "tack" itself to cast. For this reason if I were to Fab a clinker ball I would look for a piece of cast, use a band saw to cut it to shape, drill it for the handle and tap in a bolt to hold it together. It can be a real pain in the rear breaking clinker free not to mention the lost piece of mild steel that goes with the clinker.

My last experience with this type of setup had to do with some oxbow stirrups I made at a friend's shop.
They are made from flat stock with the branches(the sides) rolled into a tube and forgwelded. I had a few sets to make. All was well til just before the forge weld came those lil Sparks that says,,,, something's burning!. Yup! A rare for me burn. Leaned my fire and it happened again. Long story short, I broke down my fire and welded in the grate was a clinker. It caused a change in air flow, created both a cold spot and a hot spot. What a pain in the posterior.

Yup, I'm pretty partial to a clinker ball. Far less hassles all around.

Also the shape of the centaur forge ball is important for putting the air where it's needed. Better than a square or round.

Truly, with that and a handled Ash dump, you will have a fire pot/twyre setup that would function as well as any you purchased..
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Marc
Yes, MT, considering this is a temporary set up I thought it would work OK. 
Anvil, did not know about the cast versus mild steel for clinker breaker.
How is that cast breaker fit to the rod ? And how do you mount the contraption? 
The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else.
Adrian Pierce Rogers
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Metalmelt
You may have to change the bottom of your pot a little. It's needs a hole so the clinker can fall down beside the breaker. and then you flip the breaker to break the clincker.
th.jpg 
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Scrambler82
Nice work Marc, what a transformation.

I saw the new fire pot and thought how will this work out and wham bam the edge appeared.


Do It Right The First Time !
GrevB
Location: SoCal, USA
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Hank Rearden
Well done! I'm taking notes.
code[Maglio.gif]  Keep the fires burning hot!
2020 ABANA Conference in Sarasota New York. June 3rd. through June 6th. Plan now!
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Marc
A bit of an update.
The electric fan is proving to be a challenge.
In order to have a fan that provides the little CFM required at the higher pressure required to push through the coals, the right fan is what is called a centrifugal fan, not an axial fan. Axial is like the one I posted above or like a bathroom fan where the motor spins a propeller that pushes the air along the conduit paralel to the shaft of the motor. The right fan is a centrifugal fan that has a sort of cage that propels the air outwards and into the duct. 
You guys in the US are blessed with a lot of suppliers that make electric forge blowers of all shape and forms. Just google Dayton blowers and you have dozen of models and that is just one manufacturer. 
We in good old OZ have not much at all. Still searching but don't like my chances. I contacted one manufacturer in the US called ACI that claims to have a distributor in Australia
https://www.aircontrolindustries.com/us/products/industrial-fans/centrifugal-fans/
They have one in Perth, just 4000 Km away and they did reply with a quote for a fan ... 
What a JOKE

Hi Marc,

 

Thank you for your email enquiry, yes we are the Australasian agents for ACI.

We have attached the following quotation and literature for your consideration.

 

-     Our price to supply one off Standard forge fan only Model # VBL6/3-00105 is $ 455.00 + GST

o   FAN-1PH 230V 50HZ 2POLE

o   CENTRIFUGAL SLIMLINE

o   BALL BRG

o   INLET GUARD (Comes as standard)

o   76MM O/D DISCHARGESPIGOT

  • CAPACITOR BOX & 3M CABLE

 

-     Our price to supply one off speed controller to suit is Model # 8-129/REE30 is $ 165.00 + GST

-     Our price for delivery FIS via Air freight is $ 440.00 + GST

o   Lead time approx. 2 weeks FIS Sydney 2170.

Yes, this morons like all other local so called distributors, get a local order, have no stock so buy ONE unit from the US, import it and sell it to you at 4 times the price you would pay retail in the US. It is an old story. The same happens with boating gear. THe mark up is about 400% on top of US retail price.

End of rant.

What does not help with electrical stuff is that you have 110v and 60 HZ and we have 240V and 50 HZ.

May have to look up the UK for some help.
Meantime I found a cheap industrial vacuum cleaner that has a blow port, so will make that work for now. 
The bathroom fan in a box is another consideration. It is too much air at too little pressure but it may have to do. A bathroom fan is $20 so a bit of a difference with that quote for $1000 or so. 

The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else.
Adrian Pierce Rogers
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Scrambler82
OK not sure what you have looked at or the rate of $$$ exchange but here are a few blowers on this page.

https://www.blacksmithsdepot.com/products/forge-fan-fuel/blowers.html

These run from 100 $US to 250 $US, again not sure what the exchange rate would do and what the shipping would be or if it can be shipped to you.

I will act as a go between for you... IF, you can get the answers and you can send the funds up front for both the blower and the shipping.

Maybe this company can handle everything for you but the pricing looks good.
Also, check out reviews on line before ordering !

Not sure if you knew about the place above or not but there are others.
AND I am not sure of any of the ones below check them out before ordering anything !

https://www.zoro.com/dayton-blower-13-cfm-115v-029a-3394-rpm-1tdn1/i/G2418902/feature-product?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIovGo88bB1wIVFMRkCh1lQg0sEAQYASABEgLUHfD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B071NQDNRK/ref=asc_df_B071NQDNRK5266918/?tag=hyprod-20&creative=395033&creativeASIN=B071NQDNRK&linkCode=df0&hvadid=198123788296&hvpos=1o5&hvnetw=g&hvrand=1467029488649510964&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9031520&hvtargid=pla-371414204591

I hope my response above is in line with the topic, sometimes I mis-internet the original intent of the post.
Do It Right The First Time !
GrevB
Location: SoCal, USA
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anvil
Lol, you are learning about an immovable grate. You won't have this problem with a clinker ball. Just hit the handle and no clogged air. At least I think that's your problem.

Perhaps this will help. Start your fire with paper and coke. You should have no blockage. When it gets stuff on top, if your Coke is a ring, or big pieces, use your fire poker to lift the coke from the grate.

I set up my first forge with a 12 volt car heater fan. No reostadt, I just attached the hot and tapped the ground to get proper air. Lol,, crude but it worked.

I've used electric in many others forged, but never came across this problem.
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Marc
Scrambler, thank you for your offer. I must say it is a very rare ocurence on the internet and I thank you for it.
A few considerations. 
You guys have 110v and 60 hz. we run 240v 50 hz.
You also have 220v at 60 hz and some squirrel cage motors don't care about the frequency. In fact Dayton has a long list of blowers "high temperature" that state 230v 60/50 hz
Those blowers would most probably work with 240v 50hz. 240 is nominal and any motor for 220 works on 240 and viceversa, the main problem is the frequency. A motor designed for 60 will run slower at 50 hz ... about 20% slower and will get hotter.

So I am still making some enquiries at my end. I could run a transformer 110v to 240v for this blower
https://www.blacksmithsdepot.com/products/forge-fan-fuel/forge-blower-3.html
or this one
https://www.blacksmithsdepot.com/products/forge-fan-fuel/gas-forge-blower-2-5.html
Transformers are relatively cheap. Frequency convertors are expensive in the size required for a 1/2 hp motor. 

Postage From the blacksmith depot website is very reasonable at $89 for the 2.5" one and 110 for the 3" blower. Much better than the almost $500 for my "local" supplier [smile]

I will need to make some more enquiries about running this little things on a transformer.

Anvil ... as far as I understand this, the point I was making is that CFM, that is volume of air, is not as important for coal forge as is pressure. 

The coal forge blowers sold by blacksmith suppliers state the CFM and the pressure. that 3" blower states 185CFM and 780 pascal of pressure or 3.1" of water if you prefer. 
Other blowers used for central air conditioners or ventilation of hydroponics and other purposes, work with no restriction at all besides the one imposed by the length of the conduits, so you have blowers stating 800 or 900 CFM with motors that are smaller than 1/4 hp. 

It is possible to calculate how much the CFM drop with restrictions but it is not straight forward. What you are saying is true, have a clinker breaker and reduce restriction. However even a new fire with no clinker at all is a restriction in itself and that internal pressure is a requirement for a forge blower, if I have learned anything from my research. 
A hand cranked blower or a bellow works precisely that way, low CFM and high pressure. 

To illustrate this, imagine a pushbike advertised as a vehicle that runs at 80km/h
And a tractor advertised to run at 30 km/h
The pushbike does run at 80km/h with a fit rider but only on the flat ... and as soon as it hits the highland, it will run out of puff and down to 10Km/h. The tractor pushes 30km/h on any terrain and with any load [smile]

I have since connected a small vacuum cleaner that has a blow port to the forge and it is a pleasure to use. Quick and easy to start, never ending source of high heat.
And I did not even read the instructions that state to remove the bag if used for blowing ... and run it with the bag on [smile]

This thing is only to prove a concept and will have to be replaced by a proper blower with a steel cowling, but for now I have abundant heat and no sore arm! 
[image]  [image]
The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else.
Adrian Pierce Rogers
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Scrambler82
OK Marc, I always like to help IF I can.

Shipping from Blacksmith Depot sound cheap to ship your way.

I dont know what Hz will work with what but I would think the Depot should be able to get something for you that is first... what you need and second... something that works.

Do It Right The First Time !
GrevB
Location: SoCal, USA
Quote 0 0
Marc
They seem to sell to all countries and ship to all. May be they have alternative current supply motors. Worth asking the question. 
The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else.
Adrian Pierce Rogers
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Scrambler82
The Forge Fire looks good an Hot !

The Vacuum Blower looks like it fills the bill but not variable.


OK on the alternate Hz/Current  if they sells to other countries then they should sell what is need to operate in those countries.  Always disliked a company selling without contact with the customer, leaves to much on the customer that could have been worked out before ordering... like the proper Hz, voltages, etc.

Ltr
Do It Right The First Time !
GrevB
Location: SoCal, USA
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anvil
Again, not trying to cause a problem with you. If it works for you, all is well.

But,,, dang those buts,,,

I have never had anywhere near the pressure coming out of my champion 400 hand crank blower as comes out of a vacuum cleaner by a magnitude.

So, here's what you must have. 4" of coke underneath, which you can do. 2" on top. This with proper air flow will use all the oxygen before it reaches your iron.

As a reference to pressure, when I am maintaining any heat from red to incandescent, if I place my hand an inch or so over my fire, I feel literally no pressure and my rpm is minimal.

Also, when I raise the temp of my fire, I increase the volume of air in order to get more oxygen. If I increased the pressure, I would have too great of a volume and the oxygen would not be consumed. It would blow thru and exit the top of my fire.

No partical blows up from the fire. No scaling from too much oxygen.

It's hard to tell from your pic, but it looks far too hot and far too much of an oxydizing fire. That's one with too much air.

I'm sure you plan to change it, but you have no control of your air. You need an air gate.

Just perhaps those forge fans you are getting your numbers from come with or absolutely need some sort of air control. Then no matter the rated pressure, you can throttle it down to a much lower pressure.

High pressure vs low pressure is pretty subjective. Without doing a scientific debate, high pressure is the last thing g I want.

If a vacuum can pick up dirt, move it thru a tube, thats too much air for my forge. Even with my larger firepot, I would never achieve the optimal neutral to reducing environment.

So I believe what you need is a low rpm, low pressure system for proper fire maintance.

Anyway, have fun
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Marc
Hi Anvil, yes you are on the money, however pressure is a variable that is meaningless on it's own. 

Yes, the fan, blower bellow or whatever is used to deliver the correct amount of oxygen to the fire, must push a correct volume of air for the fire to be optimal. How much air depends from a series of factors, size of the fire pot, size of the steel to be heated up to begin with. So Fire pot number one needs 100 CFM ... fire pot number two needs 150 cfm. If you give fire pot number one 150 cfm you have too hot fire, the other way around the fire is not enough.

Sure. The question now is how are you going to achieve this volume of air reaching your fire in the optimal way you correctly describe?

Fans, blowers and assorted gadget to move air are sold quoting only one value. Free to air volume. That is the hypothetical volume of air a fan can move if there are no restrictions in the flow. That measure has only a commercial value to classify fans without much thought of their application, hence my mistake in buying a little fan that is designed to move air along an unrestricted conduit and remove moisture from a little greenhouse. 

A forge blower is faced with a task of forcing a certain volume of air through not a smooth constant conduit but a variable set of restrictions piled up at the end of the tuyere. Despite it's variability, the volume must remain constant and must be able to increase or decrease at will. To achieve this, the forge blower needs to have large additional power stored as inertia in it's moving parts so that variations in the pressure to overcome will not result in variations in the volume delivered. A bit like the tractor going up or down the hill at constant speed. The HP of the tractor equate to the pressure the blower is capable to deliver. A blower that can push air at 3" of water column will not slow down when coals are in teh way or even when the gate is closed, and increase the pressure up to 3" if required. A computer fan on the other hand, capable of moving 100 CFM, if a restriction is encountered will falter and slow down delivering very little simply because it is incapable of providing the pressure necessary. No power, no pressure, no air, no oxygen no heat. 

Hand cranked blowers or a blower activated by a pedal, or a bellow, are all devices that have an inherently very high amount of inertia because they are moved by a person that weights 80 kilos and can push way more than required, can produce a lot of additional pressure and small variations in the restriction mean nothing to a large arm turning the handle or a heavy leg stepping on a pedal.

When it comes to an electric device, stored inertia means more cost, so can we achieve the same by spinning something cheap very fast? 
Sure, but the result will only be good for a set of circumstances up to the pressure the little fan is capable and not more. So pressure is an important factor to deliver an optimal amount of air, and it does not mean that 'more' pressure is bad and less is good, in fact it is meaningless as long as there is enough pressure available to do the job. The same with the tractor. It does not matter if the tractor has 20 HP or 200HP as long as there is enough power available to go over the hill at 30 Km/H.
Air volume is what is required ... pressure is what gets the job done. [smile]
Wow, that took a lot of ranting ... ha ha
The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else.
Adrian Pierce Rogers
Quote 0 0
Marc
This thread is going to be longer than Ben-Hur 
So ... got my answer back from the Blacksmith depot. No joy. They say don't have anything else besides 110v 60hz and can not advise if it will work on a step down transformer.
I'ts ok, it is the standard reply I get from most US based suppliers when I ask fro something outside the square.
Had a forging press lined up and asked the guys to supply with a motor for Australia and had no joy either. Thy said couldn't source one and when I offered to post one to them, they went cold and I lost interest. 
Anyway ...
Turned my aim at good old UK and found a supplier in ... Poland!

http://kowalperun.com/blower/140-blowers-for-forges-type-p1.html

I hope I don't hit a hurdle with the shipping. Their blowers are massive!

Another option is this one ... smaller, about half the capacity and no motor but very similar to the original. Adding a motor should be no issue. Unfortunately twice the price

http://kowalperun.com/blower/369-blowers-for-forges-type-esv-1.html

Have a look at the size of their firepot [smile]
The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else.
Adrian Pierce Rogers
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anvil
Hey, the best way is the one you understand.

Also im taking great joy in your process.

So any humor poked at you is meant both as help and a bit of fun.

I must confess that in my 30 some years as a smith, you are the first to go to poland for a hot air solution!

Do you have a background in engineering, perhaps? [wink]

In your tractor example, you forget that the difference is made up by a mark 1, foot operated gas pedal. This equates to the firepot in two simple ways.
1: a reostat
2: a simple and cheaply made mechanical, hand operated, air gate.

The cost and time to build / onstall is most likely a tenth the cost and time for freight from poland,,, or even from Sidney!

A rheostat is not ideal as you need a proper motor. Not all are made to last long if one is used.

A mechanical air gate is the best. It gives you the same kind of air control as a forge blower. This gate could care less as to cfm,inches of water, or resistance in the pathway to ypur irons in the fire. It works great with a simple 12 volt automobile heater fan and will work great on your prize from Poland.and, unless your fan from Poland comes with a computerized solution, it will still need either of the two devices above to give you the control you need over your fire to create that coveted and much needed neutral to reducing fire.

And, with your scientific approach to this, it seems to me that running your air thru your mechanical blower inlet will create a lot of not needed resistance as all the air is going to want, with a passion matching mine for forging, to want to turn those blades!

Ive always found that its best to use the tool for the job and not combine technologies.

Thanks for your long post. I am enjoying it immensly.
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Marc
Yes, Poland seems like a long shot, but if you think about it is no different from buying from US. I just got a rounding hammer from Slovakia so that is were we are. Eastern Europe is the last bastion of decorative and architectural blacksmithing. 
The spinning of the hand fan is an interesting one. I thought the same as you, but looking inside the cowling there is a lot of room funnelled to the 3" opening and the fan itself is a series of radial blades at 90 degrees, no curves of any sort so the air has no difficulties in overcoming them and get in the conduit quick smart. 
Having said that ... taking the hand fan off and hanging an electric blower is a non issue. Two bolts I can undo by hand and the hand fan slides right off and the electric blower can come on with a minimal bracket added there. 

Yes, an air gate is required, another rather easy addition. I did not mention it in my long winded pressure/volume dissertation because the topic was the fan adequacy, but you are right. Gate or speed controller are a must.  I'll think about a car aircon fan. I actually have one somewhere. 

I also have a proper commercial very beefy forge blower that came off a decrepit side blast forge. about 18" diameter and uses a one HP motor coupled with a belt. Perfect for a large shop forge, way too big for this little toy I am working on. That one has a gate controlled by what seems to be a gear stick from a Mac truck. Would go well with those polish forge pot measuring 20" long ... wow!

The automotive fan will need a decent transformer or a battery, I have a few chargers ... mm ... certainly cheaper solution than 100 GBP plus shipping. Plus due to being a manifest improvisation, it would go well on the side of the hand fan as an add on [smile] 

Tinkering with gadgets is a lot of fun, building them is even more fun. After all that is what a blacksmith did for centuries. Then came the knife makers ... ha ha

PS
On a completely unrelated subject, is anyone else like me and can not read the text on the buttons under this posting window? The text used to be very light blue ... now the text is non existent. [frown]





The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else.
Adrian Pierce Rogers
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Marc
This is my "other" blower, sort of the other end of the scale. It runs on a 3/4 hp 1400 rpm single phase motor of massive proportions, with a pulley that doubles the rpm so it runs at 2800 ... it can blow a real storm. The gate is there for a reason. 
It came off an old side blast forge from a blacksmith that used to repair horse carriage steel tire wheels. Bought it off the grandson who was more of a wandering farrier. The old man's anvil is still there, a beast easy 600 lb. The forge itself had no value completely rusted out and couldn't be moved. 
[image]  [image]  [image]
The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else.
Adrian Pierce Rogers
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Scrambler82
Talk to me about the actual blower's electrical requirements...  110 volts... 50 hz ?

Will a 50/60 hz, 115 volts work ?

I have started to play around with searching the web for 115 volts/50 hz Forge Blowers so far I see some but am totally ignorant in what is actually needed.

Also, Variable is a requirement... YES ?

Ltr
Do It Right The First Time !
GrevB
Location: SoCal, USA
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Marc
We have 240V 50 Hz in Australia and UK ... you have 110V 60 Hz in the Us. Herz or frequency relates to the speed of the generator. Trivia: 50Hz is the optimal 3000 rpm for steam engines. 

220v, 230v or 240V is not much of a muchness, 110 and 115V is exactly the same. Voltage can be changed from 110 to 220 or backwards relatively cheaply with step up or step down transformers. Frequency is vey expensive to alter and it is much cheaper to change the motor. 

To complicate matters, you guys have 110V and 220V both on 60Hz of course. 110v for anything to up to a toaster, 220v for anything larger [smile] ...
Can you run a 220V 60Hz on 240V 50Hz is the real question, and as far as i know (that is not much), it depends from the motor. Some will work better than others, all will lose some power and overheat.  Suppliers are unwilling to provide any information for obvious reasons. 

Then there is three phase and single phase and I have seen some blowers that give the choice of both according to how the supply is wired to the motor. And then also seen blowers that claim to work on 230V 50/60 Hz  Now this one seem to be the ticket. 
If only the manufacturer was willing to say yep ... no problems.
PS
Variable speed at such low wattage is relatively cheap to retro feed using a light dimmer, providing the motor can take this and not all motors do. As you can see it is not a simple matter and one that entertains the e-bay tragic no end. To buy from the US at 1/4 of the price and try to make it work ... or to buy at full price from the local mafia?

I was marinizing a Kubota motor not long ago and needed a gearbox and the plates to mount it. Contacted the local PMR "distributor" who told me no problem, $2500 and a month to deliver. When I questioned both the horrendous price and the time, he told me in no uncertain terms that he had to import it "for me" and that took time.
I contacted the UK distributor who charged me $650 including shipping and I had the gearbox in 2 weeks not to mention the UK merchant extensive knowledge and willingness to assist with the right choice. 
The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else.
Adrian Pierce Rogers
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Scrambler82
Marc,

Ive been looking on lined and have received the same answers you did, I even contacted Wayne Coe about a blower motor.  He might be someone to talk to he sells variable motors for Belt Grinders, I couldn't answer  his questions about the motor requirements except The Voltage and Hertz.
He didn't say to have you call him but if you approach him he might have a better answer for you.

here is his info if you need it or want to contact him; you might check out his web site !

Wayne Coe
Artist Blacksmith
729 Peters Ford Road
Sunbright, Tennessee 37872
423-628-6444
http://www.WayneCoeArtistBlacksmith.com
waynecoe@highland.net


He is on the iForge Iron Web Site, one of the nicer guys !

Good Luck, I am stumped... !
Do It Right The First Time !
GrevB
Location: SoCal, USA
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anvil
So, Marc, how's your blower and forge build going?
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Marc
Nothing past the vacuum cleaner contraption that works but is not pretty. This time of the year is hectic with 4 daughters, 3 son in law, 9 grandkids. 
Maybe next week I get some time to forge.

I did find a supplier of blowers that claim to work at 220v and 60/50 Hz 
Not much help from the manufacturer who is unwilling to say yes it will work on the Australian network, or no it will not, however I posted a few questions on an engineering website and had an almost instant string of replies from electric engineers who explained that this motors are so small that they regulate with the load, so the fan is the regulator and so they can work on both frequencies. A bigger motor would waste a lot of electricity this way but because they are so small, efficiency is irrelevant and when the solution is crude, it works.  220v or 240v makes no difference.

I'll import one as soon as I recover from the Christmas season. I also reconsidered my idea of attaching the blower to the side of the hand blower, and will detach the cast iron blower (only two bolts) and slide the electric one in it's place. Easy. When the time comes to build a proper shop forge this will return to manual and probably sit idle outside the shop for the time I need to heat something too long to maneuver inside the shop.

Thank you for the link to Wayne Coe. I'll make sure to contact him too.
The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else.
Adrian Pierce Rogers
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