Kado

Hello all. 
After June 30th, I'll be moving into a lovely home nestled into a cul-de-sac. It's a 2 acre lot with a small  front yard, but a nice woodsy backyard. This is an awesome upgrade after spending 2 years in a crappy apartment, and those woods will soon be home to a modest workshop. I've checked the law to make sure everything will be legal, and it's all good. As I said though, it's a cul-de-sac. There are neighbors on two sides, and a road behind the woods. My three anvils ring like church bells, so when I build this thing I gotta keep noise in mind. I can't guarantee I'll have time to forge while everyone's off to work, so anything to mitigate the noise will help.

I've seen some interesting designs, from tin sheet metal shacks to cinderblock constructions. Low budget is the way to go, but I have my doubts that tin-roofing walls will do anything for noise. Wood is my next best guess, but there's always the fire hazard. I suppose I should note that I'm using a coal forge, and will be working with large pieces like swords and machetes. 

Thanks in advance, folks.

Quote 1 0


Skarzs the Cave Troll
Well, if you can't dampen the anvil ringing at all (with chains, magnets, secure stands, etc.), then just see how some walls of the shop will lower the noise. 
And if all else fails, just be sure to make something for the neighbors in reconciliation for the noise, and let them know what you do. (I'm gonna need to do that myself.)
Quote 0 0
jmccustomknives
Get you a Fisher anvil.  For years my neighbors thought I did carpentry.  lol.  The Fisher is so quiet that not even a 4lb hammer can't be heard in my house.  The 10lb sledge can't be heard but felt through the floor.  

Rule #10;  "I can make that" translates to; "I'm to cheap to buy it new."

Quote 0 0
Hank Rearden
This is a great subject. As for me I've got plans to build my smitty underneath of a small Bank shed. I hesitate to call it a bank Barn because Bank barns in central Pennsylvania are typically large. That being said by putting the smitty under ground it will deflect the noise toward the back sparing my neighbor's forward of the sounds of the hammer blows. One of idea you may want to look up is acoustic or sound deadening acoustic construction methods, there may be some ways to build your walls that will help absorb the sound.

I'll add some cost-effective ideas when I get finished with work later today.
code[Maglio.gif]  Keep the fires burning hot!
2020 ABANA Conference in Sarasota New York. June 3rd. through June 6th. Plan now!
Quote 0 0
Skarzs the Cave Troll
Bank barn? Mm, so that's what that design is called.
When I get my own place, that's more or less what I'm gonna do, Hank. It should stay pretty cool during the summer if it's got earth walls if at least on two sides, and it'll keep up with my cave troll thing, being semi-submerged.
Quote 0 0
Kado
Skarzs the Cave Troll wrote:
Well, if you can't dampen the anvil ringing at all (with chains, magnets, secure stands, etc.), then just see how some walls of the shop will lower the noise. 
And if all else fails, just be sure to make something for the neighbors in reconciliation for the noise, and let them know what you do. (I'm gonna need to do that myself.)


Fine advice. My neighbors are close, so I plan on getting to know them quite well. They'll definitely know what I do, since they'll probably want to know about the odd shed I'm meticulously building in the backyard filled with swords and knives. As for chains and magnets, I can cover that. I just worry it won't be enough, so that leaves me with building materials to do the rest of the job. Just not sure which material will serve the purpose without being too much of a fire hazard.


Quote 0 0
Kado

Hank Rearden wrote:
This is a great subject. As for me I've got plans to build my smitty underneath of a small Bank shed. I hesitate to call it a bank Barn because Bank barns in central Pennsylvania are typically large. That being said by putting the smitty under ground it will deflect the noise toward the back sparing my neighbor's forward of the sounds of the hammer blows. One of idea you may want to look up is acoustic or sound deadening acoustic construction methods, there may be some ways to build your walls that will help absorb the sound. I'll add some cost-effective ideas when I get finished with work later today.


Now, THERE'S an idea! My newly-acquired woods are on a modest incline towards a highway, so I would have to do some leveling work anyway. I don't think I could get it deep enough to be underground, but I could go full hobbit-hole and make a hill around the structure. Dirt is easy to come by where I'm at, so it's plenty viable. That said, I wonder what the interior structure should be composed of to avoid deterioration from the dirt and moisture? I can't haul anything in there, so it'd have to be built on-site.
Now, I say all this, but if I'm doing this I'm doing it big enough the first time for my tool collection to grow into. This'd be a lot of work indeed. If a simpler structure would still do the job, (facing away from the neighbors, as you described) then I think it would be prudent to go for that option. I am a jeweler for five days of the week, leaving only the precious weekend to work on the structure. Any suggestions on building materials to mitigate sound based on your experience?

 

Quote 0 0
Kiwi tussock
You could pick the brains of an architect. They are up with the play of all the latest ideas & materials.  I have a cobber who I could ask when he gets home from a trip abroad but it wont be for some weeks.
I do like the hole in the ground idea.  The trouble is, if it was made of concrete or hollow blocks, the echo in the building would encourage one to go spend much time there ay.
I'll watch this topic with interest cause I'm moving also.
Quote 0 0
Skarzs the Cave Troll
The echo of concrete is something I hadn't thought of, when I was first thinking of the same problem. There are ways of dampening that, too, but I'd have to do some research. I hope anyone is sure to tell us if they figure out anything!
Quote 0 0
Hank Rearden
Here's the rest of my thought for sound proofing.

Go to the local building supply and pick up some ceiling tiles for hanging ceilings. Some of these are designed to reduce noise. Then grab one or two 2"x4"s from the lumber isle. The tile sound be 2'x4', cut them in half and make 2'x2' panels. Cut the 2x4's and make 12" square boxes to hang on the wall space them so when the ceiling tile panel is attached there is a few inches of space between them. That should trap some of that echo bounce coming from the wall. Find a contractor who is doing demo an office and it should cost zero except for some of you time. 

There are wall panels commercially available but they're pretty salty. 
code[Maglio.gif]  Keep the fires burning hot!
2020 ABANA Conference in Sarasota New York. June 3rd. through June 6th. Plan now!
Quote 0 0
Metalmelt
Yes, find a demolition site or ask the store if the have any damaged tiles.
Quote 0 0
Kado

Hank Rearden wrote:
Here's the rest of my thought for sound proofing.

Go to the local building supply and pick up some ceiling tiles for hanging ceilings. Some of these are designed to reduce noise. Then grab one or two 2"x4"s from the lumber isle. The tile sound be 2'x4', cut them in half and make 2'x2' panels. Cut the 2x4's and make 12" square boxes to hang on the wall space them so when the ceiling tile panel is attached there is a few inches of space between them. That should trap some of that echo bounce coming from the wall. Find a contractor who is doing demo an office and it should cost zero except for some of you time. 

There are wall panels commercially available but they're pretty salty. 


I think I get the idea, more or less. I haven't worked with those panels before, so I wonder how fire-resistant they are. 

You know, I'm coming to realize that fire-proofing the interior of my shop seems somewhat cost-prohibitive. That said, I can offset that fact with plenty of fire extinguishers and readily-available water. Practically speaking, the forge will only be lit while it's being attended to. If a fire breaks out, I'll likely be aware of it before it gets out of hand. (Hopefully, anyway.) I think I can line the interior of the smithy with type X drywall since it's rated to be fire resistant. Otherwise, it's just making sure heat doesn't radiate into anything it shouldn't through the forge or chimney, or directly setting fire to my table, supplies, etc. On the subject of sound, here's what I got so far:

On the subject of sound, here's what I got so far:

Chain and magnets on the anvil(s)
Building facing away from neighbors and towards the road, and possibly built subterranean 
Sound-redirecting materials, like the roof panel suggestion
Dirt floor is a possibility

I'm also considering using a sand-filled stand for my anvil. That gives me the benefit of adjustable height for the anvil by adding or removing sand, as well as dampening sound even further. I can get my welder buddies together and custom-design it to the size of my main anvil, and perhaps even make adapters to fit my smaller ones.

Quote 0 0
jmccustomknives
What kind of anvil(s) do you have?

Rule #10;  "I can make that" translates to; "I'm to cheap to buy it new."

Quote 0 0
Kado
jmccustomknives wrote:
What kind of anvil(s) do you have?


If I had pics, or were anywhere near them to take a picture, I would post them. My largest is an abused English-style anvil. It's either 100 or 120 lbs; can't remember right off hand. Sides are too worn to identify the maker. This anvil is a rescue, but after a face restoration it's been extremely reliable. The next smallest is a 50 pounder I got at a flea market, also English-make, never used. I literally just got it a week ago, and it's still in the trunk of my car. I also two lovely homemade anvils I found at antique stores crafted from railroad tracks. On the nicer one they did a really good job on it, even grinding out a nice pointy, rounded horn. It's my go-to chain maille/jewelry anvil. The other seems like a work in progress someone stopped in the middle of. It's functional, but very roughly-formed. I bought it with the intention of finishing the job.
I'd love a heavier anvil in my arsenal, but like I said the restored 100 pounder is a workhorse. One day I'll get a nice 250 pounder or something, but for now I do fine with what I got.
Quote 0 0
jmccustomknives
Be on the look out for a Fisher.  They really are that quiet.  I have an old English anvil, it isn't too bad when it comes to noise.  The RR track anvils are terrible, but you are using them for small things so the noise should be manageable. 
Stay away from Swedish anvils, unless you can flip it.  While they are a top quality anvil it's like working on a church bell. 

Rule #10;  "I can make that" translates to; "I'm to cheap to buy it new."

Quote 0 0
Kado
jmccustomknives wrote:
Be on the look out for a Fisher.  They really are that quiet.  I have an old English anvil, it isn't too bad when it comes to noise.  The RR track anvils are terrible, but you are using them for small things so the noise should be manageable. 
Stay away from Swedish anvils, unless you can flip it.  While they are a top quality anvil it's like working on a church bell. 


Good to know. My 100 pounder is really quiet, which worried me at first. But it's proven itself. It might be a fisher, for all I know about it. The primary track anvil is unique in that the face has been planed, making it far more useful. It's plenty hard, but I'd never work steel on a face that small. Jewelry and chain maille exclusively.
Quote 0 0
Hank Rearden
Can you post some pics of your anvil? You can create a photo album  under your profile and direct folks there via a link I copy and pasted here from the address bar after opening my profile and clicking the album I wanted to share.

http://www.theironforgefire.com/album?action=view_album&userid=2245301&albumid=4270

You could also click my username to view my profile and see all of my photo albums. ps. I really need to add new pics. 

code[Maglio.gif]  Keep the fires burning hot!
2020 ABANA Conference in Sarasota New York. June 3rd. through June 6th. Plan now!
Quote 0 0
Kado
Hank Rearden wrote:
Can you post some pics of your anvil? You can create a photo album  under your profile and direct folks there via a link I copy and pasted here from the address bar after opening my profile and clicking the album I wanted to share.

http://www.theironforgefire.com/album?action=view_album&userid=2245301&albumid=4270

You could also click my username to view my profile and see all of my photo albums. ps. I really need to add new pics. 



Sorry for the late reply. Business has kept me away. I can't get to my anvils until I'm able to move into my new house. Because I've been in an apartment for the past two years, my folks have been kind enough to hold on to my tools for me. They're a fair way off from me, so I have to grab everything in one pass when I go to pick it all up. I'll post pics when I can, but it'll be well after the 30th. THanks for the info, btw.
Quote 0 0