Ohio Rusty
There was a known smith in past history named Joseph Moxon. He had a famous quote that has been used for more than 300 years. It is: " He that will a good edge win -- Must forge thick and grind thin "

He published a book in 1693 named Mechanick Exercises or the Doctrine of handy works. His book on smithing is written in the colonial writing where 'S's in the middle of a word look like a small f, but is pronounces as an 'S'.  If any listmember is interested how blacksmithing was really done -- no belt sanders, no power hammers, no electric drills or cut off saws ....... The link to Joseph Moxon's book is listed below thru google books. There is alot to be learned from his writings, and sometimes going back to the old ways can help one solve a problem or see a different way of finding a solution.  If you are interested in traditional blacksmithing, then this book is right up your alley!!
Happy reading !!

Ohio Rusty ><>

https://books.google.com/books?id=KdllAAAAcAAJ&pg=PA58&lpg=PA58&dq=he+that+will+a+good+edge+win&source=bl&ots=-Qzlzj5Svt&sig=6UTy9hWzXc5956-bW_0zEPkRq9E&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwik0fyJmKTRAhVJ74MKHSTzBxs4ChDoAQhNMAc#v=onepage&q=he%20that%20will%20a%20good%20edge%20win&f=false
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Skarzs the Cave Troll
Interesting! Thanks, my friend.
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jmccustomknives
That saying is a true today as it was then.  I'd like to see more of his works.

Rule #10;  "I can make that" translates to; "I'm to cheap to buy it new."

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Metalmelt
I had a copy of another book he wrote. It was a Dover books reprint. I can't remember the name and it's packed up now. It dealt more with Printing but used forging to make many parts for the press. He was really a brilliant man of his time.
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Ohio Rusty
As an example .. on the page with the google search that comes up when you click the link, he has a bluing recipe. He mixes Indico (Indigo- a blue powder dye for clothes)  and Sallad-Oyl  (Salad oil)  and applies that mixture to metal when it is hot and let cool. It almost sounds just like hot bluing with Tru-Blue gun bluing in the plastic bottle. Granted .. we don't know what kind of oil they used in the 1690's, but it would be interesting experiment nontheless just to see how it turned out.  So far ...this google book on the smithing part has been an interesting read.
Ohio Rusty ><>
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confederatemule
Thanks fer the link.

Mule
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Hank Rearden
Could you imagine if he had access to the internet! Smithing, writing a book and publishing. What a learned man for his time.
code[Maglio.gif]  Keep the fires burning hot!
2020 ABANA Conference in Sarasota New York. June 3rd. through June 6th. Plan now!
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Ohio Rusty
Blacksmiths were probably one of the most learned people for their time. It was not unusual they could read in three different languages -- two would have been German and Latin. Many of the books they would have read concerning smithing and such were written in other languages. the 5 books of Arte de los Metales were published in Spain in 1640. De Re Metalica was published in 1556. De Re Metalica wasn't translated into American until 1922 by President Herbert Hoover !!  De Veteribus et Novis Metallis was Latin and talked about the mining of iron ore that the smith would have smelted to get iron to work into tools. These early works were what they had to learn from.  Brilliant folks they were !!
Ohio Rusty ><>
The Ohio Frontier Forge
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Skarzs the Cave Troll
They were also very highly respected in the community. (For good reason, too!) Nowadays, it's like we look like a bunch of redneck hooligans playing with fire- which isn't too far off, of course.
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Dominic
exactly skarzs.[biggrin]
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Duce
Redneck? Guess it's better than deplorable 😨
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theengel
Awesome.  

But maybe someone could explain "Must forge thick and grind thin" to me.
Or, if not smithies per se, were you otherwise trained in the metallurgic arts before straitened circumstances forced you into a life of aimless wanderin'?
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jmccustomknives
theengel wrote:
Awesome.  

But maybe someone could explain "Must forge thick and grind thin" to me.


That my friend is easy.  Hammer marks and decarb, both work against you in making a knife.  Hammer marks will ruin a blade since you have to grind them out.  Leaving a "grind tolerance" will give you that cushion to remove them. 

Forging your edges overly thin can do 2 things, first the thin sections have their heat sucked out by the anvil causing it to harden as you forge.  This can lead to the edges cracking.  Second is decarb.  That scale that comes off the blade is caused by oxidation, what you don't see is the carbon is the first thing to go so in long forging sessions you can have a layer that has very little carbon.  This leads to an edge that won't skip a file making you think it didn't properly harden.

So the rule:  Forge the edge to a quarter, grind to a dime then heat treat.

Hank, you might want to move this to it's own thread if anyone ever wants to research it.

Rule #10;  "I can make that" translates to; "I'm to cheap to buy it new."

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